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Post by cuda on Jul 18, 2022 22:41:51 GMT 10
Pay them more. There’s obviously not enough incentive for people to ref.
Maybe FNSW and FFA could take less of a cut from our rego (still not sure what they offer for the money they take) and let grassroots football have the resourcing it needs.
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FTown
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Post by FTown on Jul 19, 2022 6:37:18 GMT 10
Money isn’t the issue - Being a ref is simply not enjoyable in the mens comp
HFI lost around 90 refs this year which equates to 30 games uncovered a week
just cut the all age down and expand youth and female
having a premier league that is such low quality really is unnecessary and Prem reserves is about the same level as AA6 if that
all that’s needed is 7 mens divisions with 10 teams each - and have 3 refs at each game along with a strong no dickhead policy that can be enforced
Less mens teams equals less abuse, aggression and incidents overall - very sad state of affairs
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Post by cuda on Jul 19, 2022 18:16:06 GMT 10
If jobs were hobbies, you wouldn’t be paid to do them. Everyone has a price. Better pay = more interested people. This is not exclusive to better working conditions, but it’s absolutely a factor to consider. Referees have never had more tools at their disposal. Having played for hills teams for 15 years, my observation is that the level of referee abuse is much lower now than years gone past. So “abuse” can’t be the only factor for losing refs. I’m sure health risks, a strong jobs market (ie can earn better money elsewhere) etc all come into play.
The other risk is that a lack of good quality referees lead to more frustration by players when less competent ppl are forced to take on jobs they just aren’t ready for (better than nothing eh!). Vicious cycle.
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FTown
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Post by FTown on Jul 20, 2022 22:02:31 GMT 10
Hopefully this helps - if it doesn’t you will never get it
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Post by oldnwise on Jul 21, 2022 15:45:52 GMT 10
More than one factor to lack of referees. My perspective as a Hills referee. - Dissent. Referees are not verbal punching bags for players but some just don't get it. Temporary dismissal for U16 and up definitely helps. Know of several referees that have dropped out altogether and a couple who try and focus on the women’s comp as much less likely to cop dissent. - Talented referees moving on to Football NSW Comps. Huge positive for Hills Football and the Hills Referees Committee have been very supportive of the Football NSW referees development program and every season educate the referees on what is available for their advancement - Covering non HFI matches. Another positive for Hills, every weekend matches are assigned from FNSW to officiate. Mostly in the U13 through U18 age groups. Allows the talented Hills referees to be put on higher level matches for their development but takes them away from local HFI comp matches. - Found other activities during lock down periods from 2020/2021 and have not returned to refereeing - Dropped out of refereeing to start playing again. - Not enough available qualified referee assessors to mentor new junior referees. Any new referee should be assessed for their first centre. Most of the qualified assessors are refereeing themselves and not always easy to have them assess new referees - Financial reward. Rates have been the same for many years and Football NSW need to increase the rates. Pay rates are outside of Hills Football control. Hills do take 5% out for administration, training and funding the referees. No different to most associations. - Growth. Players/Team numbers growing at a faster rate to the number of referees. HFI is going to grow bigger each year with the housing development taking place in the district.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2022 16:27:30 GMT 10
Oldnwise.... a very comprehensive analysis from an insider with first hand knowledge. Well done. This sheds new light on the current discussion & enlightens us all.
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Post by obadiah on Jul 26, 2022 16:14:48 GMT 10
Ex Hills Ref here.
I gave up 2 years back - best decision I ever made. And yet I miss it still sometimes.
I loved doing it in many ways. And most of the time it was OK to do. But when problems came I wouldn't sleep well for 2-3 days after an incident (like get no more than 2 hrs sleep in those nights). The final straw for me was when surrounded at the end of the game being called all the names under the sun (a f*****g dog, a cheating c**t, the worst referee ever, you get the idea)having finger poked in my chest, and when I retaliated verbally I was the one with the issue.
My son (19yo at the time) also left after seeing what had happened to me and then having to call off a game because of trouble, only to have the players of one team surround him and his younger AR calling them names because they wouldn't go on, as they didn't feel safe.
These things would not be accepted off the football field, why are they OK on the field?
Here are my insights: 1. the issue was not so much with the younger guys. It was the AAM, O35s and O45s. Everything that went against them in the game was the ref's fault. Most blokes get you can only call what you see and you will make mistakes and are OK to go with it, but some just can't deal with anything below perfection in their eyes (by which they mean, all decisions go their way). 2. the clubs and association do not support the refs in difficult circumstances. In my case others witnessed it and put in reports. I put in reports. In the end I took weeks off and nothing was done to the players. I never came back. 3. clubs are not willing to act against their players. In the situation with my son, the club assured him that the would take action against the players. They initially did so, but on appeal (a few days later) it was told that they were harshly dealt with and they could continue. 4. It isn't a question of pay. Football refs are well paid compared to other sports. Double or triple the money and I still won't come back. I don't need the money more than I need my own wellbeing. 5. the impacts of the abuse affect not only the ref, but also their family. My wife and my kids were all impacted by the outcome of the incident.
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Post by rainman on Jul 27, 2022 9:06:53 GMT 10
Obadiah - sorry for what happened to you and your family. Fully agree that money is not the problem with the most significant issue being "the stupid old men syndrome" where old hacks who are trying to relive their youth take their frustrations out when things don'go their way.
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Post by obadiah on Jul 27, 2022 19:24:25 GMT 10
Spot on.
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pep
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Post by pep on Jul 28, 2022 18:14:57 GMT 10
Just having a quick look at Dribl across a couple of age groups for this Saturday:
U15's - 13 matches across 4 divisions. 2 games with a referee
U16's - 10 matches across 3 divisions. 1 game with a referee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 19:49:50 GMT 10
From recent comments by forum members it seems that referees are an endangered species. Guess who's to blame ? The ratbag fringe who spoil it for everyone. The solution is simple. If the majority of players want more referees to adjudicate their games then they need to stomp on the sort of behaviour from their team mates that is the source of the problem. The buck stops with you. Don't tolerate the rubbish behaviour by a few that spoil it for everyone. Call them out, bench them & if need be remove them from the team altogether. It is easier to replace a player that has obvious issues than to find good referees.
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Post by pieandmash on Jul 28, 2022 23:31:36 GMT 10
I counted 95 games without a centre referee on Saturday and only 20 games with a centre referee, this seems like a crisis
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Post by pieandmash on Jul 28, 2022 23:37:05 GMT 10
Sunday 55 games without a centre referee and 14 do have a centre referee
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Post by The other on Jul 29, 2022 6:27:37 GMT 10
How do you see this information regarding ref allocation?
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g
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Post by g on Jul 29, 2022 7:49:00 GMT 10
Next to the fixture is a little whistle - when you hover over it you can see the allocation
Won’t be as bad as that as a few referees wait for the uncovered list so they can choose a game that suits them/avoids certain teams
Also a large % of senior refs still play and can’t pick up 3 or 4 games
Heaps of refs prefer reffing girls and ladies game over an PYL or AA3-AA5 game - standard obviously not as high but a far more enjoyable experience - everyone shakes hands at the end and has a bit of a laugh - does not happen in mens ……anymore
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