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Post by macduff on Aug 20, 2018 15:41:34 GMT 10
At the end of extra time, the players on the field are the only ones who can take a penalty. Is any one of those players on the field allowed to be goalkeeper during the penalty shootout?
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Post by dreamgoal on Aug 20, 2018 16:22:20 GMT 10
At the end of extra time, the players on the field are the only ones who can take a penalty. Is any one of those players on the field allowed to be goalkeeper during the penalty shootout? Yes! You can swap goal keepers as often as you like with another player on the field during the KFTPM. You may also swap the keeper with a named substitute (player off the field) if the keeper becomes injured during the KFTPM!
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Post by HappyFeet on Aug 20, 2018 18:17:08 GMT 10
Have had a very brief squiz of the bylaws and I cant find anything specific about allowing or not allowing a goal keeper to be interchanged. There is one clause that talks about interchange players and then states the referee has the authority to permit this or not. Not sure if that helps.
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Post by sweetleftfoot on Aug 20, 2018 20:16:40 GMT 10
At the end of extra time, the players on the field are the only ones who can take a penalty. Is any one of those players on the field allowed to be goalkeeper during the penalty shootout? Yes, but once a keeper is nominated they are the keeper for the duration of the penalty shoot out. They can only be replaced as keeper during the penalty shoot if they are injured or sent off
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Post by dreamgoal on Aug 20, 2018 20:37:53 GMT 10
At the end of extra time, the players on the field are the only ones who can take a penalty. Is any one of those players on the field allowed to be goalkeeper during the penalty shootout? Yes, but once a keeper is nominated they are the keeper for the duration of the penalty shoot out. They can only be replaced as keeper during the penalty shoot if they are injured or sent off That's not correct, the GK can be changed with any other player on the field as often as they like and can in fact change after each and every kick. The only time a GK can be "substituted" with a named substitute (player on the bench) is if they are injured!
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Post by sweetleftfoot on Aug 20, 2018 21:25:34 GMT 10
But substitutions are not allowed during KFTPM, and only players are allowed on the pitch during KFTPM - so how does a team decide to replace the goalkeeper if he/she is not injured? I'm sure I've heard of a team trying to do this and the ref wouldn't allow it. Could be mistaken though Yes, but once a keeper is nominated they are the keeper for the duration of the penalty shoot out. They can only be replaced as keeper during the penalty shoot if they are injured or sent off That's not correct, the GK can be changed with any other player on the field as often as they like and can in fact change after each and every kick. The only time a GK can be "substituted" with a named substitute (player on the bench) is if they are injured!
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Post by dreamgoal on Aug 20, 2018 22:50:54 GMT 10
But substitutions are not allowed during KFTPM, and only players are allowed on the pitch during KFTPM - so how does a team decide to replace the goalkeeper if he/she is not injured? I'm sure I've heard of a team trying to do this and the ref wouldn't allow it. Could be mistaken though That's not correct, the GK can be changed with any other player on the field as often as they like and can in fact change after each and every kick. The only time a GK can be "substituted" with a named substitute (player on the bench) is if they are injured! Because you aren't substituting, you are simply changing a players position on the field. You can do this after each kick if you want to but only with players on the field!
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Post by HappyFeet on Aug 21, 2018 6:45:46 GMT 10
The rules are not clear and open to interpretation if this thread is anything to go by.
Granville always used to send out and make public the specific rules around the finals series including procedures for penalty shoot outs and what must happen with the players on the field immediately after extra time including goal keepers and from memory as far as I can recall the keeper that finished extra time was then keeper for the penalties unless he or she got injured.
From what I am hearing and from some talk at the pub last night the word is two penalty shoot outs have gone off the rails, one forced to be replayed in AAM because a player apparently took his shin pads off after extra time and then the ref would not let him take a penalty nor retrieve his shin pads. The team that one on the day after having to replay the penalties some days later ended up losing. The other one involved O35 ladies and apparently one team wanted to change keepers and the referee would not allow, that team lost and word is they may have now lodged a complaint / appeal.
Oh dear, one would expect better than this.
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Post by theaxe on Aug 21, 2018 7:28:19 GMT 10
The rules are not clear and open to interpretation if this thread is anything to go by. Granville always used to send out and make public the specific rules around the finals series including procedures for penalty shoot outs and what must happen with the players on the field immediately after extra time including goal keepers and from memory as far as I can recall the keeper that finished extra time was then keeper for the penalties unless he or she got injured. From what I am hearing and from some talk at the pub last night the word is two penalty shoot outs have gone off the rails, one forced to be replayed in AAM because a player apparently took his shin pads off after extra time and then the ref would not let him take a penalty nor retrieve his shin pads. The team that one on the day after having to replay the penalties some days later ended up losing. The other one involved O35 ladies and apparently one team wanted to change keepers and the referee would not allow, that team lost and word is they may have now lodged a complaint / appeal. Oh dear, one would expect better than this. You are spot on regarding the Over 35 ladies game. The game finished and everyone was waiting for the first penalty kick when a new goalkeeper appeared from the bench , the ref run to the side where the bench was and refused the “new” goalkeeper to replace the keeper that finished in goals after extra time. A few points on this 1. I thought that who ever finishes in goals at the end of extra time must remain in goals( I could be wrong) 2. The ref must have got upset as at no time did the team informed the ref on what they were doing 3. The team missed 4 penalties anyway and now that they lost they want to appeal ? 4. Worst of all once the game was over there was a person in the team letting everyone know that he was some boss of the referees and that they will be appealing and he was going to make sure that the game was replayed - really ?
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Post by sweeper on Aug 21, 2018 8:21:23 GMT 10
The bylaws aren't clear but the coaches and managers handbook refers to this - All matches played under the auspices of the Association shall be played according to the laws of football as laid down by FIFA except to the extent that such laws are varied by these competition rules and/or by any binding decision of Hills Football or Football New South Wales or any other body as appropriate as the Association may from time to time determineSo going to this link - www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_14_the_penalty_kick_en_47369.pdf and specifically pages 22 and 23 which are cut and pasted below: A goalkeeper who is injured while kicks are being taken from the penalty mark and is unable to continue as goalkeeper may be replaced by a named substitute provided his team has not used the maximum number of substitutes permitted under the competition rules. A player other than the goalkeeper who is injured may not be substituted during the taking of kicks from the penalty mark. An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper at any time when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken if the referee is notified. If the goalkeeper is sent off during the taking of kicks from the penalty mark, he shall be replaced by a player who finished the match. With the exception of the foregoing case, only players who are on the field of play at the end of the match, which includes extra time where appropriate, are allowed to take kicks from the penalty mark. Time for a new document on the hills website
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ynwa
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by ynwa on Aug 21, 2018 8:44:40 GMT 10
Here is an extract from GDSFA 2016 Procedures for Final Series...at least they were proactive and transparent before the finals...
Procedure for Drawn Games - The Taking of Penalty Kicks If at the end of extra time, a match is still drawn on goals, the taking of Penalty Kicks will take place, which will determine the winner of the match. Kicks from the Penalty Mark — Procedure (excluding the additional Laws of the Game instructions) The referee chooses the goal at which the kicks will be taken. The referee tosses a coin and the team whose captain wins the toss decides to take the first or second kick. The referee keeps a record of the kicks being taken. Subject to the conditions explained below, both teams take five kicks. The kicks are taken alternately by the teams. If, before both teams have taken five kicks, one has scored more goals than the other could score, even if it were to complete its five kicks, no more kicks are taken. If, after both teams have taken five kicks, both have scored the same number of goals, or have not scored any goals, kicks continue to be taken in the same order until one team has scored a goal more than the other from the same number of kicks. A goalkeeper who is injured while kicks are being taken from the penalty mark and is unable to continue as goalkeeper may be replaced by a named substitute provided his team has not used the maximum number of substitutes permitted under the competition rules. With the exception of the foregoing case, only players who are on the field of play at the end of the match, which includes extra time where appropriate, are allowed to take kicks from the penalty mark. Each kick is taken by a different player and all eligible players must take a kick before any player can take a second kick. An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper at any time when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken. Only the eligible players and match officials are permitted to remain on the field of play when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken – U12 and U13 – Coach may remain on field with team All players, except the player taking the kick and the two goalkeepers, must remain within the centre circle. The goalkeeper who is the team-mate of the kicker must remain on the field of play, outside the penalty area in which the kicks are being taken, on the goal line where it meets the penalty area boundary line. Unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game and International F.A. Board Decisions apply when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken. When a team finishes the match with a greater number of players than their opponents, they shall reduce their numbers to equate with that of their opponents and inform the referee of the name and number of each player excluded. The team captain has this responsibility. Before the start of kicks from the penalty mark the referee shall ensure that only an equal number of players from each team remain within the centre circle and they shall take the kicks.
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Post by dreamgoal on Aug 21, 2018 8:48:18 GMT 10
The rules are not clear and open to interpretation if this thread is anything to go by. Granville always used to send out and make public the specific rules around the finals series including procedures for penalty shoot outs and what must happen with the players on the field immediately after extra time including goal keepers and from memory as far as I can recall the keeper that finished extra time was then keeper for the penalties unless he or she got injured. From what I am hearing and from some talk at the pub last night the word is two penalty shoot outs have gone off the rails, one forced to be replayed in AAM because a player apparently took his shin pads off after extra time and then the ref would not let him take a penalty nor retrieve his shin pads. The team that one on the day after having to replay the penalties some days later ended up losing. The other one involved O35 ladies and apparently one team wanted to change keepers and the referee would not allow, that team lost and word is they may have now lodged a complaint / appeal. Oh dear, one would expect better than this. The same team won both games, North Rocks.
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Post by dreamgoal on Aug 21, 2018 8:54:29 GMT 10
The rules are not clear and open to interpretation if this thread is anything to go by. Granville always used to send out and make public the specific rules around the finals series including procedures for penalty shoot outs and what must happen with the players on the field immediately after extra time including goal keepers and from memory as far as I can recall the keeper that finished extra time was then keeper for the penalties unless he or she got injured. From what I am hearing and from some talk at the pub last night the word is two penalty shoot outs have gone off the rails, one forced to be replayed in AAM because a player apparently took his shin pads off after extra time and then the ref would not let him take a penalty nor retrieve his shin pads. The team that one on the day after having to replay the penalties some days later ended up losing. The other one involved O35 ladies and apparently one team wanted to change keepers and the referee would not allow, that team lost and word is they may have now lodged a complaint / appeal. Oh dear, one would expect better than this. You are spot on regarding the Over 35 ladies game. The game finished and everyone was waiting for the first penalty kick when a new goalkeeper appeared from the bench , the ref run to the side where the bench was and refused the “new” goalkeeper to replace the keeper that finished in goals after extra time. A few points on this 1. I thought that who ever finishes in goals at the end of extra time must remain in goals( I could be wrong) 2. The ref must have got upset as at no time did the team informed the ref on what they were doing 3. The team missed 4 penalties anyway and now that they lost they want to appeal ? 4. Worst of all once the game was over there was a person in the team letting everyone know that he was some boss of the referees and that they will be appealing and he was going to make sure that the game was replayed - really ? You are nearly correct here..... The player whom the team wanted to play in goals was on the field at the end of the game so therefore is eligible to replace the goal keeper at any time during the penalty kicks! Secondly the person you speak of was asked for his advice and provided that to try and ensure the game was played in accordance to the LOTG, unfortunately this didn't happen and as such the team has the right of appeal, this outcome is will be decided by the association and not the referees committee.
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RedCard
Junior Member
Referees are always just misunderstood...
Posts: 60
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Post by RedCard on Aug 21, 2018 10:56:08 GMT 10
The rules are clear: (I have provided the exact text from the Law Chart on the procedure of taking kicks from the penalty mark "KFTPM") I have highlighted in bold the parts which apply.
Kicks from the penalty mark
Kicks from the penalty mark are taken after the match has ended and unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game apply.
Procedure
Before kicks from the penalty mark start
Unless there are other considerations (e.g. ground conditions, safety etc.),the referee tosses a coin to decide the goal at which the kicks will be taken which may only be changed for safety reasons or if the goal or playing surface becomes unusable
• The referee tosses a coin again and the team that wins the toss decides whether to take the first or second kick
• With the exception of a substitute for a goalkeeper who is unable to continue, only players who are on the field of play or are temporarily off the field of play (injury, adjusting equipment etc.) at the end of the match are eligible to take kicks
• Each team is responsible for selecting from the eligible players the order in which they will take the kicks. The referee is not informed of the order
• If at the end of the match and before or during the kicks one team has a greater number of players than its opponents, it must reduce its numbers to the same number as its opponents and the referee must be informed of the name and number of each player excluded. Any excluded player is not eligible to take part in the kicks (except as outlined below)
• A goalkeeper who is unable to continue before or during the kicks may be replaced by a player excluded to equalise the number of players or, if their team has not used its maximum permitted number of substitutes, a named substitute, but the replaced goalkeeper takes no further part and may not take a kick
• If the goalkeeper has already taken a kick, the replacement may not take a kick until the next round of kicks
During kicks from the penalty mark
Only eligible players and match officials are permitted to remain on the field of play
All eligible players, except the player taking the kick and the two goalkeepers, must remain within the centre circle
The goalkeeper of the kicker must remain on the field of play, outside the penalty area, on the goal line where it meets the penalty area boundary line
An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper
The kick is completed when the ball stops moving, goes out of play or the referee stops play for any offence; the kicker may not play the ball a second time
The referee keeps a record of the kicks
If the goalkeeper commits an offence and, as a result, the kick is retaken, the goalkeeper must be cautioned.
If the kicker is penalised for an offence committed after the referee has signalled for the kick to be taken, that kick is recorded as missed and the kicker is cautioned.
If both the goalkeeper and kicker commit an offence at the same time: if the kick is missed or saved, the kick is retaken and both players cautioned
if the kick is scored, the goal is disallowed, the kick is recorded as missed and the kicker cautioned
Subject to the conditions explained below, both teams take five kicks
The kicks are taken alternately by the teams
If, before both teams have taken five kicks, one has scored more goals than the other could score, even if it were to complete its five kicks, no more kicks are taken
If, after both teams have taken five kicks, the scores are level kicks continue until one team has scored a goal more than the other from the same number of kicks
Each kick is taken by a different player and all eligible players must take a kick before any player can take a second kick
The above principle continues for any subsequent sequence of kicks but a team may change the order of kickers
Kicks from the penalty mark must not be delayed for a player who leaves the field of play. The player’s kick will be forfeited (not scored) if the player does not return in time to take a kick
Substitutions and send offs during kicks from the penalty mark
A player, substitute or substituted player may be cautioned or sent off
A goalkeeper who is sent off must be replaced by an eligible player
A player other than the goalkeeper who is unable to continue may not be replaced
The referee must not abandon the match if a team is reduced to fewer than seven players
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RedCard
Junior Member
Referees are always just misunderstood...
Posts: 60
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Post by RedCard on Aug 21, 2018 11:01:00 GMT 10
Further to this - in regards to the first replay of penalties (AAM 4) - the team that won on the day (4-2) in penalties also won in the replay (4-2)...
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