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Over 45's
Mar 10, 2019 13:38:38 GMT 10
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Post by groinstrain on Mar 10, 2019 13:38:38 GMT 10
It has to be said...more shenanigans
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ynwa
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by ynwa on Mar 16, 2019 12:41:42 GMT 10
Why do we have By-Laws?
I would have thought the default position was a 10 team comp for an 18 round comp.....there seems to be a lot of discretion used...again, why have by-laws?? 2 divisions of 10 teams will foster a proper full home and away comp, a proper promotion and relegation system (2 up 2 down) and compliance with the by laws. Yes, not everybody is going to make the finals....the example we should be setting for all age groups....we have become soft...
8.2.6. Premiership Competition (for 18 Round Competitions) 8.2.6.1. Ten (10) team competitions to form the basis of all competitions except at the discretion of the Competitions Committee. 8.2.6.2. 10 Team Competitions: Will play eighteen (18) rounds to be drawn at the beginning of the season, playing each opponent at least once.
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Over 45's
Mar 16, 2019 13:06:25 GMT 10
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Post by dog657 on Mar 16, 2019 13:06:25 GMT 10
Why do we have By-Laws? I would have thought the default position was a 10 team comp for an 18 round comp.....there seems to be a lot of discretion used...again, why have by-laws?? 2 divisions of 10 teams will foster a proper full home and away comp, a proper promotion and relegation system (2 up 2 down) and compliance with the by laws. Yes, not everybody is going to make the finals....the example we should be setting for all age groups....we have become soft... 8.2.6. Premiership Competition (for 18 Round Competitions) 8.2.6.1. Ten (10) team competitions to form the basis of all competitions except at the discretion of the Competitions Committee. 8.2.6.2. 10 Team Competitions: Will play eighteen (18) rounds to be drawn at the beginning of the season, playing each opponent at least once. Agree 100%
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Over 45's
Mar 17, 2019 9:58:36 GMT 10
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Post by The Weeknd on Mar 17, 2019 9:58:36 GMT 10
It’s still early days for the O45s comp. As more teams move from the 35/1s to 45/1s it will build to 8-10 teams and are a more blalanced division. I commend the association for trying to make the Comp more competitive.
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Post by stopper on Mar 18, 2019 9:06:35 GMT 10
Which is real easy to say from your position in the pile Doggie
YNWA has a point re the by laws (one up one down by the way), however it isn't just about making finals, its about being competitive (see Skullfade comments). There where multiple games last year where teams in Div 1 just didn't turn up (forfeit) because there is a difference between putting in a shift and losing 4-0/5-0 and having 33% possession, to losing double digits plus and having 10% possesion
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Post by hey on Mar 18, 2019 9:50:02 GMT 10
Exactly! Why would any team want to play against opposition when they know they will win by double figures (or worst lose by that amount). Should be taking a competitive 6 team comp over a compromised 10 team competition every time (not just 45s but any age group).
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Post by blahblah on Mar 18, 2019 10:07:45 GMT 10
Yeah, everyone has a different opinion. If I had to choose between:
(1) Being in a division of 4 teams, that are all equally competitive. You turn up each week and either win or lose by a goal or two. You play the same team 4 / 5 times a season (2) Being in a division of 10 teams, where 3 teams are equally competitive / 3 teams will will beat you guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals / 3 teams where you will beat them guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals
(3) Being in a division of 10 teams, where 3 teams will pump you 10+ each game, 3 teams will beat you guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals / 3 teams you have a chance of drawing or beating
For me I would choose (1) every day of the week, I couldn't care less if i played the same team 5 times so long as each team had a fair go at winning each week.
Some people would choose (2) which is fair enough
No one would pick (3). The problem with going to 10 teams comps with only 2 divisions is you are forcing the situation of (3) on 3 or 4 teams.
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Post by shadow on Mar 18, 2019 12:04:25 GMT 10
Yeah, everyone has a different opinion. If I had to choose between: (1) Being in a division of 4 teams, that are all equally competitive. You turn up each week and either win or lose by a goal or two. You play the same team 4 / 5 times a season (2) Being in a division of 10 teams, where 3 teams are equally competitive / 3 teams will will beat you guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals / 3 teams where you will beat them guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals (3) Being in a division of 10 teams, where 3 teams will pump you 10+ each game, 3 teams will beat you guaranteed by 3 or 4 goals / 3 teams you have a chance of drawing or beating For me I would choose (1) every day of the week, I couldn't care less if i played the same team 5 times so long as each team had a fair go at winning each week. Some people would choose (2) which is fair enough No one would pick (3). The problem with going to 10 teams comps with only 2 divisions is you are forcing the situation of (3) on 3 or 4 teams. Or have a 10 team division where 1-4 play off at end of season and 6-9 play off.. you might get lucky and sneak a draw with a top four side.. i agree with your option 1, no-one wants to loose by double digits and there is something unhealthy about wanting to win by double digits but drawing the line of what competitive means is difficult.. taking the O45/1 top two teams can be in their own draw given how ahead they are
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ynwa
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by ynwa on Mar 18, 2019 16:51:53 GMT 10
My point is you have to start somewhere with 10 team divisions to nurture a healthy competition all round and having 20 teams this year seems to be that perfect line in the sand. We seem to have a defeatist approach because nobody wants to play the Kellyville teams, but that's only 4 games out of 18....and we seem to be more interested in protecting and preserving division 2 rather than div 1 and in doing so we are accidentally creating a minor super league with no incentive to move from div 2, after all we are over 45's... As I said previously, a true competition is 2 games home and away against all teams, not unequal games played 3 or 4 times in 6 or 8 team comps over 18 rounds, with promotion and relegation of 2 teams (and not 1 as per the bylaws when the Assoc was first starting out)....just my thoughts.
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Post by blahblah on Mar 19, 2019 8:53:36 GMT 10
I think this issue isn't specific to 45s, its an issue in any division. Problem with shoe-horning competitions into 10 teams is its not a 'good place to start' as invariably you get less teams playing over time rather than more. Teams that are getting pumped week in week out stop playing or move to more competitive competitions. I think a better place to start is as many divisions as you can and then ideally fill them out to 10 team comps. Less teams dropping off, more options for new teams coming in (rather than default of 35 teams going to 45/1 automatically, what if they have come from 35/5s? ?). So if you have to start somewhere (in this case), starting with 3 fairer divisions that encourage more teams to join the 45s is a better place to start Another hypothetical for you, why do you play soccer on the weekend - to play each team in your division twice or to play a game of football you have a reasonable chance of winning or losing? Sure a team 10 comp is a 'true competition' but why force it just for the sake of having a 'true competition'? Doesn't make any sense to me. I do think specifically with your comments re Hills Footabll O45s your comments re protecting and preserving Div 2 is actually a good approach, if you start forcing the div 2 standard teams into div 1 (in any age bracket) you will find more of them not playing the next year or disbanding. Happened with one of the Hills Knights 35/2 teams (not the one I play in) that was never anywhere near good enough to play in div 1, got put in there, got pumped every week and their team has now disbanded, how is that good for the competition? Its not the premier league.... its a bit of fun
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ynwa
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Posts: 43
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Over 45's
Mar 19, 2019 9:56:53 GMT 10
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Post by ynwa on Mar 19, 2019 9:56:53 GMT 10
Yes it's not the Premier League, it is just fun at 45s, so why not embrace the variety of 10 team comps...we have 20 teams nominated in 2019. Let's address 3 divs when more teams enter and deal with new entrants case by case then..
And therein lies the problem,starting with and protecting div 2 only compounds the problem as we have created a closed shop in div 1 with a select 6 teams only and nobody will want to play there, even the trophy hunters in div 2.
Personally, I would prefer a full compliment of 10 teams and not the same 5 teams played 3 or 4 times.
Perhaps 5 divisions of 4 teams will cater for your requirememts more readily 😁
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Post by hey on Mar 19, 2019 13:40:09 GMT 10
rather than repeat ourselves over and over go back an read the previous posts ynwa. By the way you have 20 teams not 50, look at the over 35s they have around 55 teams yet Div 1 still only has 8 teams in it. And rightly so because those 8 are competitive the rest aren't.
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Post by blahblah on Mar 19, 2019 13:48:40 GMT 10
Sorry another point which I think Skullfade made, is that if I was in a team of old blokes I would prefer to play in O35/5 than go to 45/1 for a season then 45/2.
So sticking to two Divs actually encourages teams that should be going to O45 to stick around in O35/5s, thus not creating more teams in O45.
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ynwa
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Posts: 43
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Post by ynwa on Mar 19, 2019 14:25:29 GMT 10
Yep 20 teams equals 2 divs x 10....I didn't mention 50 teams.
Each year to be assessed on number of teams nominating and on their merits...more than 20 then have 3 divisions, no problem
And I didn't suggest o/35s automatically go to 45/1s...
And 8 teams in div1 is better than 6...would prefer 10.
Think we are overcomplicating things when a simple format presents itself....
Think I've struck a chord with div 2 trophy hunters.. :-)
Enough said....moving on....enjoy the season all...
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Post by blahblah on Mar 19, 2019 14:40:42 GMT 10
Think I've struck a chord with div 2 trophy hunters.. :-) You've heard the same message from 6 different people, are you suggesting that all those that disagree with you are trophy hunting teams in Div 2? My team finished 6th out of 9 teams in O35/2 last year, we'll be trophy hunting again this year. Div 2 in O35 last year was fantastic, any of 4 different teams could have made the final 4th spot on the last game. Just curious, which team do you play for?
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